From: mellowcandle	Date: June 22nd, 2013 02:07 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Fortunately there doesn't seem to be much of a fandom.

	From: cal_reflector	Date: June 22nd, 2013 08:55 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Fortunately... Oh.

Well, pardon me for being all grown up and corrupted and past the age of Disney.

Actually, I just like being contrarian. If you asked me to write Punisher fanfic, I'd write a fic where no one dies.

	From: mellowcandle	Date: June 23rd, 2013 01:22 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Yeah, I guess Disney's never made anything grown-up and sophisticated like a cartoon about a magical fourth grader and her talking stuffed animal.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: June 23rd, 2013 02:58 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Certainly not one where we have hetero/homo/bi-sexual romances between teachers, cousins, and students from elementary to middle school.

	From: mellowcandle	Date: June 23rd, 2013 08:58 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Okay.

	From: serena_b	Date: June 23rd, 2013 06:45 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Ha! But also remember that CCS is by CLAMP...which even in their more PG stuff can have some pretty adult themes and stuff. :)

	From: mellowcandle	Date: June 23rd, 2013 09:03 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Haha, yeah, but a lot of CLAMP's stuff is shit, too, so it's certainly not inherently superior to Disney animation/storytelling.

	From: serena_b	Date: June 23rd, 2013 09:42 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Nothing much can hold a candle to Disney animation, especially the old school stuff. Perhaps Studio Ghibli films might be an exception, which is probably one of the reasons Disney buys the distribution rights for them.

Newer Disney/Pixar films have excellent stories, but I attribute that more to Pixar than to Disney. I mean, Brave was a freaking brilliant movie. LOVED IT.

I do love the old Disney movies princess films, for the same reason I love romance novels. But really there's not that much to them, story-wise, tbh, because they're just recycled fairy tales (which they Disney-fied so they don't even retain the meaning behind them, but honestly, I'm ok with that, when you're making movies for kids you don't need a lot of scary stuff). Mulan, and Beauty and the Beast (even though that's a fairy tale, it isn't an old school fairy tale and has a much better original story to it) are exceptions to the princess movies, imo.

I really like other Disney films so much more, like Pete's Dragon, or Bambi (there's some great story telling), or even the strictly Live Action movies such as Old Yeller. (And pretty much half of 60's Disney films were amazing!)

Anywho. I have a love/hate relationship with Disney...lol.

Also, I LOVE Clamp. I'm not saying they can't do no wrong, but I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on how much of it might be shit. :)

	From: mellowcandle	Date: June 24th, 2013 04:04 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Okay, CLAMP is a bad example (although my problems with them have been well documented, so no need to go into it); so it's more like, I'm tired of the argument that anime/manga is superior to western animation. There's lots of good anime, but there's also a lot of really, really bad anime. And anyone who thinks there aren't "grown-up" themes in a Disney movie... hasn't seen a Disney movie. There's some darkness to be found for sure (like, at first Gaston comes across as kind of a lout and a buffoon for us to laugh at, but when he riles up the town mob to storm the castle, that's frightening! The lyrics in that song are like, holy crap! "We don't like what we don't understand and in fact it scares us, and this monster is mysterious at least." So let's kill him because we don't know anything about him. If that's not an adult theme, I don't know what is. Except maybe "Hellfire" in The Hunchback of Notre Dame, which is about lust and sin. In a Disney movie!!)

And it stands to reason that while some Disney is very good, some of it isn't, either. That's just how it works with anything. I mean, I think I'm one of the few who doesn't care for Aladdin or the Lion King. I was pleasantly surprised how charming Tangled was--I was prepared to dislike it because it wasn't in traditional 2D animation and the previews made it look Shrek-y. But I also think Tarzan is criminally underrated. We rewatched it a couple of months ago, and it's incredibly well-done. The animation is gorgeous, it's funny and touching, the music gets punked on for no real reason (okay, "You'll be in my heart" is schmaltzy, but "Strangers like Me" and "Two Worlds" are great overlays) and Jane is a wonderful heroine, intelligent and adventurous instead of just generic damsel-in-peril. I do get a bit tired of "villain falls to his death so hero doesn't get blood on his hands", though, and it's one thing I love about Phillip in Sleeping Beauty--sure, the fairies help him, but he actually has to kill the villain.

/tldr

	From: serena_b	Date: June 24th, 2013 04:22 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I'm tired of the argument that anime/manga is superior to western animation

Yes, exactly. It's NOT. There's just as much shit out there in anime as there is anywhere else. Anyone that thinks 'anime is just better because' is just being a pretentious asshat. :)

I guess you could argue that for a while there it seemed like Disney was *only* marketing to kids. Not to say that it's stuff doesn't have scary moments. Hell, there were some pretty scary things in the oldschool Disney films too. And Fantasia is just an acid trip, but I LOVE it. But still, Disney *does* have a brand, and they try to market to a specific group, although you could say with Pixar and such they are widening that gap a little bit.

Perhaps it's also completely unfair to try and compare Disney with anime which probably shouldn't be grouped under one giant umbrella because you're dealing with so many different companies, which don't always necessarily have the same audiences.

So, it's kinda more apples and oranges to me. :)

	From: mellowcandle	Date: June 23rd, 2013 09:06 pm (UTC)		(Link)

It's super adorable. I don't care that it's made for preschoolers--it's just a quality show. I mean, they've got Tim Gunn as the steward and Wayne Brady as the rabbit!!!

	From: serena_b	Date: June 23rd, 2013 09:21 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Whhhhaaaaaaat! I love me some Tim Gunn. I might have to watch this show now.